Looking For A Great "No. 2" - Start here.
Deacon Bradley: We're gonna do
things a little bit different
today.
Hello, and welcome to the sharp
business growth podcast, the
show for CEOs who want to create
healthy business growth. I'm
your host, Deacon Bradley,
alongside justice Murray today.
And on today's show, we are
doing things casually, we got a
conversation that I want to
share with you, justice and I,
we sat down to record, we've
talked for over an hour before
we hit record today. And one of
the things that we talked a lot
about was, each of us worked
with a lot of CEOs who are
growing their business, we see a
lot of the same problems. And
one of the things that comes up
over and over is that need for
an integrator and the business
visionaries and integrators
worked so well together. If you
want to know more about that
read the book rocket fuel, it's
fantastic. And that is a very
powerful combination. But what
visionaries often are missing is
they don't understand an
integrator they don't understand
how an integrator wants to be
approached, they don't
understand what to expect. And
as a result, they wind up being
a little bit stuck. And so
today, Justice is going to pick
my brain. I'm an integrator, and
he is just asking me a whole
bunch of questions because you,
the CEO, the visionary, we want
you to understand integrators.
JUSTUS MURIMI: Okay. So whenever
when I think about this episode,
I think it's really important
for if CEOs and visionaries are
listening to this, I assume a
lot of them are going, Okay,
everything you guys are talking
about, I'm at that place, I need
an integrator, I need somebody
to come in. And I would assume
what they think attracts people
like you is might be different
than what actually attracts you.
So when you're looking at a
business going, I can help here
or I'm attracted to this. What
what are you looking for? Or
what attracted you to businesses
where you did come and help?
What did you see that was like,
or I'd like to come in here and
help this thing scale? Huh? Well,
Deacon Bradley: I guess I would
summarize it under the word
opportunity. But then I put an
asterisk next to that, because I
know if you're listening to this
podcast, you're going, Hey, I
got a great opportunity right
here. What I think justice is
getting at is we're in involved
in a group that has a lot of
visionary CEOs. And I was
telling him the other day, I was
like, Man, it's so interesting,
the sheer volume of visionary
CEOs in this group. And when you
talk about an integrator,
they're like, great. I'd love to
pick one of those up, but the
integrator store, are you an
integrator, let's hang out. And
I'm doing that thing sometimes,
where as they're talking, I'm
like, shrinking down in my
chair, like, hoping they don't
notice me, right? Cuz I don't
want to work with them. And I
think that might be what you're
getting is like, some of them
are. Yeah, so I'm in a short,
I'm interested in opportunity.
But I'm also as an integrator, I
think I'm really highly aware of
where I'm strong and where I'm
weak. And so I'm looking for
like a specific scenario, where
it's like, oh, you need a tennis
partner who can crush backhands?
Yeah, gosh, I can hit back hands
all day. My forehand is
terrible. Oh, you got four
hands? Hey, let's play, huh? I
know, that's not how tennis
works. But you get it?
JUSTUS MURIMI: What were you
Okay, this is so helpful. What
makes you shrink, always make
you shrink wrap back in that
group, like, what were you
hearing, you're like, that's not
what I want to hear.
Deacon Bradley: I was I'm
reading between the lines as
they're talking. And they're
kind of sharing, like, I got
this opportunity and that
opportunity and this other
opportunity, and it's justice,
it's gonna be huge.
Unknown: And in my head, it's
like,
Deacon Bradley: I'm, I'm hearing
this liability and that
liability. And Deacon, you're
gonna fix it. I'm not so like,
what's missing, I guess, is a
really clear vision about
everything. It's not. So I think
the misunderstood part is, on
one hand, we and you're really
good at teaching CEOs to do
this. You need to have a clear
vision. So you need to spend
we've talked about this some on
the show already. You need to
spend more time in your vision,
pulling it together, like making
it like just crafting your
vision. That's part of your role
as the CEO. And then but there's
this other part where it's like
if that if that's not clear
enough, and like I don't
necessarily, I don't think
integrators necessarily want to
hang out. Because
JUSTUS MURIMI: it's just chaos.
What what I am like about to go
you Like you're preaching to me
right now I'm like, Yes, yes,
yes, I know that this is so much
value. When do you know that the
vision is clear? Like what are
you hearing that like? And maybe
what are you picking up on that
maybe other people might not
pick up on in the video Like, I
could fit in here. I'm excited
about this.
Deacon Bradley: One of the
things is just how just to steal
Cameron Harold's name for it
because I can see his book over
there my bookshelf that you
recommended I read justice, good
book. vivid, is it vivid? Like,
can I step into it and see
exactly what it's supposed to
look like when it's done. That's
really important, because an
integrators job is to bring that
to life. So if your vision is
just money, or it's gonna be
huge, I don't know if if it's
going to be huge is like I'm
working 60 hour workweeks and
flying all over the country, and
I'm on like, TV shows Hawk in
this thing, or if it's gonna be
huge, like we've built this
incredible team, we're so
focused, that we only work on
one or two things, and it's
great. So I think the, the thing
that I, I noticed in the vision
is like, is it vivid? And then a
really another thing that I look
for just as kind of like a test
for if it's something I can do
or not, is, is it focused? I
don't know if that makes sense.
Yeah, this is a big one. Yeah.
JUSTUS MURIMI: Yeah. What do you
When do you know that it's
focused? Like, give me the, give
me the like, the, the symptoms
of a focused vision? Like,
that's a terrible word. But do
you know what I mean? signs?
What are the signs of a focus
vision? Not
Deacon Bradley: the symptoms,
geez, the size of a focused
vision is like, well, it's
really clear, I guess, you know,
focus kinda. It's a good word,
to create clear clarity. So it's
really clear. But also, it's not
like, it's like a, it's not like
a shotgun. It's like a rifle.
Like, there, I am aiming this
this point on the horizon, and
we're going there. It's not
like, We're going west. And I
don't know if we're gonna wind
up in Mexico or Canada, but
they're both West. So it's more
focused around. What we're what
we're trying to create an
example. This is, is I think, I
don't remember if you were in
this meeting, or if we just
talked right after but a CEO
that that you and I have worked
with a lot. And he's laying out
the vision for one of the
businesses. And I, after I left,
I was like, Man, that was
fantastic. Because I know where
we're supposed to be in a year.
Yep. The opportunity is really
clear. I see the upside. Yep.
But but it was clear enough and
focused enough that I knew what
it should be in three months.
And because I could see that
clearly, I knew what it should
be in two months and one month,
who needed to be on the team,
what you could cut and throw off
the ship to go faster. Like I
could see all of that because of
the clarity. And because of the
focus. It wasn't just like a,
like, anything that makes money
or is nearby. I'm going to scoop
it up. And we're going to do
that too. Because, hey, I've got
an integrator they can do those
things.
JUSTUS MURIMI: It would it be
safe to say, I'm here to help
you get where you want to go not
fix the problems that you have.
Deacon Bradley: Hmm, well, I
think they're both true, because
I will help you get where you
want to go. I will also fix the
problems that you have. But what
I won't do is fix your broken
unfocused vision. Because it's
just it's not
JUSTUS MURIMI: so good. Is it?
This is going to help so many
visionaries. I hope. One of the
things because I was in that
group call with you was that
there was an over communication,
their vision was of not having
problems. It was not of where
they wanted to go. It was Oh,
that's a good point. It was
here's all these things, I need
an integrator, here's all these
things that are going wrong. I
really need an integrator, like
they would help me solve these
problems. While an integrator is
going that's not an opportunity.
Yes. That's an that's an author
job. Yes. All that's good. You
don't want a job?
Deacon Bradley: No. What do you
want? Well, gosh, that's a big
question. You and I have worked
a lot on purpose. So I was
actually I had this exact
conversation with the CEO
earlier today. And we were
joking that he's like, Yeah, but
guys like you are unemployable.
And I told them well, you know,
the last business that I was a
partner of for four years, found
a way to employ me. So you never
know. And so we were talking
about what that was. And I was
like, Look, what do I, what do I
want? I figured out my purpose,
what is my gift to the world,
what I'm really good at. And
what I want is to spend 80% of
my time doing just that, and not
not spending my time outside of
that purpose. So Gosh, I got a
little Boston and no one Asian
land there.
JUSTUS MURIMI: But they're
picking up on on what you're
saying. Because I am, I am kind
of integrator ish, but a much
more vision way more. It I
thought I was more of an
integrator until I met a true
integrator. And I was like,
that's not. And then I met a
true visionary. And I was like,
I'm less of that than I thought
I was. But I'm somewhere in the
middle. But what I'm hearing you
say is, if you're a true if
you're a good visionary, and you
want an integrator, their
vision, the integrators vision,
your vision has to help them
accomplish what they're owed.
The integrators vision, the
integrators purpose.
Deacon Bradley: Yeah, they have
to, they have to line up. So a,
a partnership that I've been
kind of, I guess, inching
towards and working with for a
few months now, has been exactly
like that. And the last
partnership I was in before,
this was exactly like that,
where they showed up, and
they're like, here's my vision,
here's what I want to build. And
I'm like, okay, like, that's
clear enough that I'm
interested. And then my response
was, here's my personal vision
and my personal mission and what
I want my life to look like and
what I want to build, and there,
and then we're kind of like
looking at both of these things.
Again, we're on this, like, the
same side of the desk,
metaphorically speaking, like
looking at these things is like,
do these could these fit
together? And if they did this,
like it did in my last
partnership, and we had an
amazing partnership for for four
years. And this new one that I'm
working on, it looks like
there's a really good fit. There
were my personal vision of when
I use vision and integrate a lot
in the sentence. Yeah, my
personal vision of what I want
my life and my business and
everything to look like, as an
integrator blends up really well
with this visionaries vision.
It's like, Oh, okay. I yeah.
Let's take the next step and see
what that could look like.
JUSTUS MURIMI: I love that.
Okay, so I feel like we were
giving them enough like, if the
visionary is listening to this
right now, they're like, Oh, my
gosh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yes, I can. I get it, I get it,
I need to go work on my vision,
I need to start having more
conversations about this. for
you as an integrator, what are
what have you noticed people
think will attract you, which is
not as high on the list for you,
when it comes to working
alongside them?
Deacon Bradley: You know, a lot
of times they don't think
anything attracts me, they don't
think about it at all. They
think I am running this
business, and I'm just gonna go
get people to get on my bus. So
I'm just gonna, like, drive up
to the integrator bus stop,
opened my doors and holler out
who wants to get on this bus?
And we're all standing around,
like, looking at each other like
nobody? I don't know, where's it
going? I don't even know where
the bus is going.
JUSTUS MURIMI: Do you like part
of what I think some of them?
This is what is surprising
What's surprising to me until I
look back at some of the
opportunities that I went after?
Is I've picked up from you a
little bit like, you definitely
want to make money, but it isn't
the number one thing you're
looking at first.
Unknown: Right? Like,
JUSTUS MURIMI: I've noticed, you
are a lot of visionaries. You're
like I can't pay someone like
you. And a good integrator is
almost like a good copywriter.
And they're like, I'll take a
percentage of revenue, because I
believe my skill set with this
thing that I'm building is so
good. And yes, you will also pay
me. But I feel like a lot of
really, really good integrators
have such a good eye for
opportunity, and are confident
in their skill set and the
opportunity that they're like,
let's talk about other ways we
can make this thing a reality. I
Deacon Bradley: totally agree.
Totally agree. Like if I was out
there looking for jlb as an
integrator, and I just put out
my salary for what I'm worth
just based on past history of
growing businesses. Like I don't
think anyone would hire me
because it's a lot. Yeah. Right.
And I know that that's not how I
would make that money also. And
it's and frankly, it's not that
fun or motivating to an
integrator because I integrators
are motivated by the growth. And
so if you're gonna pay him flat
rate, and expect them to do
their magic, it's like it's
boring. Frankly, I would rather
come into a business making zero
or insultingly low salary. Yep,
with an opportunity to grow it.
And one thing we didn't talk
about, but here's something that
I absolutely look for, not
explicitly, but it's, it's
pretty clear when you're talking
to somebody, and that this
visionary is willing to give me
authority to grow it, then I
feel like, Okay, I have the
skill set, the opportunity works
out, and they are going to
actually allow me to do what I'm
good at. Yeah. So I believe that
I'm going to make more through
this partnership and have more
fun through the partnership than
I would just getting some
salaried job.
JUSTUS MURIMI: Do you this, this
is huge. What is a way that you
like to you like to be
approached, when it comes to an
opportunity? Here's what I think
when I know from visionaries,
you're like, I don't have the
money for you. But I think, but
I think we could work really
well together. I am embarrassed
of the mess I've created in my
business. And if you look at it,
you're gonna make fun of me or
think that I'm, I suck. I'm
already insecure about this. And
then the other fears like, Oh,
great, you come in, then who am
I like, they get insecure about
like, great, you come in you
lead, you're such a strong
leader. Like, and you demand so
much authority, or like, you
don't demand it, but you you,
you're gifted and so other
employees will go, we're gonna
report to you, you're finally
given us clear direction on what
to do and all this other stuff,
that the visionaries then like,
well, like, what's my job here?
And so can you speak to those
things?
Deacon Bradley: Yeah. So I guess
as far as that one of the first
things you said, it reminded me
of a conversation I had this
week, like, how do I like to be
approached? a CEO approached me
earlier this week, or last week,
we got on the phone earlier this
week, and I didn't even know
what we were going to talk
about. But what kind of what
kind of worked out? Was he? He's
like, yeah, you know, I just
actually heard that you weren't
working at this other
partnership anymore. Like, Can
Can I just want to talk? I don't
even I'm not asking for anything
specific. I just know that I'm
not good at what you're good at.
And so we just, he just kind of
opened up. His vision was like,
here's what I'm building. Here's
where I am. Here's what the team
looks like, what I don't know
what what do you think so. But
he get the way that he
approached me, which I think is
a good way was, was humbly
asking for insight. What do I
not see is essentially what he
was saying, Do you see something
that I'm missing? Can you help
me avoid a mistake? Or just
point me to the right direction?
I don't know. And I think that's
a really good way to approach an
integrator with emphasis on the
humility or, yeah, because Yeah,
because like you're asking for,
for insight into a very personal
private business that you have
built, which, as you mentioned,
can be a little bit like there
can be some anxiety there. But
as an integrator, I'm not afraid
of what I see. In fact, the
Messier the better. Yeah, well,
but the part that I am afraid of
is if you don't have humility,
then I don't believe you're
going to give me the authority
to actually do what I need to
do. Yep. So I don't really care
so much about the mess. But I
care about your mindset around
fixing the mess and and you're
like, how tight of a grip do you
have on the way things are done?
JUSTUS MURIMI: That's a big
deal. How do you know that a
visionary is ready for you?
Deacon Bradley: How do I know
that a visionary is ready for
me. They have a clear vision, we
mentioned that I can see exactly
where they're trying to get to.
I can picture I guess in my
mind, I'm like, I can see the
next three to 10 steps in my
head just from talking to him
about the vision. That's like
one component. And then the
other component is if I'm
sharing with them the steps that
I see and how I might approach
this some some obstacles we'll
probably have to navigate or
whatnot. If I find it
particularly like I often like
to, to test visionaries a little
bit around like around how
strong of a grip Do they have on
the way things are done? And I
might suggest something that is
different.
JUSTUS MURIMI: What do you mean
is how strong of a grip like
when would it like you and I
know what that means? When is a
visionary how to go Like how do
you know when the grip is too
tight?
Deacon Bradley: What does that
actually mean? It means they're
not talking about the vision,
which is like the destination,
what the thing is going to look
like, and they're getting into
the hell. So if I was just to
use an example, a CEO I was
talking to earlier today makes,
you know, like coatings for or
for things that's really vague,
but I get a vague product. And
it's usually marketed like
towards automobiles or stuff
like this. This isn't an actual
conversation, this is just an
example. And if I were to
suggest, say, hey, this thing
that we're selling, or use on
cars, we may need to be open as
part of this growth plan, we may
need to be open to using it on
phones, or I don't know, Windows
or other stuff. And I have
worked with visionaries in the
past who would shut that down.
Like, no, this is for whatever.
And that's kind of a really
specific marketing example. But
it's an example of having a
tight grip. Now, I, it's kind of
a lot to unpack here. But that's
kind of my illustration of a
tight grip. But if the vision
was around building a company
that was only for cars, and
that's the whole thing, then
yeah, shut it down. But if the
vision was just like, creating
something that makes things
shiny and clear, then you've
shut something down, then you
have to tighter grip. It's a
hard thing to explain.
JUSTUS MURIMI: No, I think I
think that's I think that's good
enough for people that would,
listening to this. And I think
it's really, really important,
because most of the time, what I
noticed is they are visionaries,
but they don't know how to date
an integrator, like they have
they think what an integrator
wants to know is a cure
Deacon Bradley: all the problems
are how do I write the job post?
Yes. Like, I'm not even going to
read the job post. Yes,
JUSTUS MURIMI: an integrator
should make you a better
visionary. Like you should feel
like challenged to think a
little bit bigger. And you
should be you should be hungry
to bring your ideas to the
integrator, because you're going
to shoot down majority of them
in a good way, because they're
looking through the holes,
because they want you to be
successful. And they're asking
you questions about because
they're actually thinking
realistically, can this happen?
Could this actually happen?
Deacon Bradley: That's a good
example. What you're bringing up
is a better example of a tight
grip versus not tight grip, if
the visionaries role is to, to
bring the vision and like bring
ideas that will bring that will
make the vision that will get
you further down the road.
That's fantastic. As an
integrator, this might be some
other perspective, you need to
hear it as a visionary as an
integrator. I'm not good at
that. So I think it's amazing
that you have all of these
ideas. Are we going to do them
all? No. But I don't have the
ideas. And I'm thrilled that
somebody is bringing me
essentially raw materials and
houseplants and I'm like, Great.
Let's build that one. Next. Yes.
And so I guess sometimes
visionaries. Like, if you're
wondering, what's my value after
somebody is doing this, that's
what it is. I don't have
anything to build without,
without the visionary.
JUSTUS MURIMI: I think that is
the best place to close it.
Because what I want is for them
to go. I just need to be more of
who I am. And think we're about
getting us to an ending point,
like a destination, and being
able to clearly depict that
destination and talk to
integrators about this
destination, and hear what their
thoughts are. pick their brain.
Deacon Bradley: Yeah, I really
love that question. You're asked
around, like, how do I approach
or attract one because I'd never
really thought about it before.
And so I was thinking back
through all of the great
conversations I've had, and the
ones where I'm still thinking
about days and weeks later, like
my wonder if there was something
there. I might go talk to this
person in every single one of
them was basically just showing
up with like, a box of stuff and
like dumping it on the desk and
BM. Like, here's my vision. Am I
missing something like what do
you see? I don't know what to do
with this, but I think you could
help. Yeah, and it wasn't like
an A proposal sort of way. It
was just like, I see your value
integrator. Yeah, what do you
see of this? And I'm like, Oh,
okay. And honestly, we have a
lot of fun doing that. Like I do
it for free with CEOs right now
just because it's fun.
JUSTUS MURIMI: Yeah. Yeah. If
If, if a visionary is listening
to this, and is going I have all
this. You know, What do I like?
How, where do integrators hang
out? Let's end on this one.
Yeah, that's, that's, I think
this will be helpful because I
think there are some that are
like, that's me. I'm right,
where they're talking about.
Okay. Where are you guys?
Deacon Bradley: That's a great
question. And I wish I could
send you to a website or a club
or something. I can't, what I
want, I'm just thinking out
loud, just as you have opened my
eyes to the value of just
talking to people in your own
network. And it's been, since
I've taken that seriously, it
has been unbelievable, the flood
of opportunities and people in
relationships that have opened
up to me. So I think the the
best place to start isn't
necessarily by looking at like
integrators Comm. I don't know
if that's a real website, take
whatever's there, I claim No,
no. If it Yeah, if it's bad, I
sorry, I sent you there. It's
not like, You're, you're going
to this website, but I kind of
see it as when you talk about
what is the job of the
visionary, it's, well, you have
the vision, and you evangelize
the vision. And you're just
talking to people about it all
the time. And if you're in if at
the end of that thing, while
you're networking and doing your
your vision CEO thing, you're
like, oh, and where I'm stuck is
I could really use a number to
to help me pull this together,
because it could go even faster.
That's, I think, a good place to
find them. Because I think a lot
of the good integrators are in
other people's businesses, or
they're consulting or they're,
yeah, friends of people. But a
lot of CEOs are going to know
them just from being in that
world, where I wouldn't find
them as like, in a Facebook
group, asking for an integrator,
right, right.
JUSTUS MURIMI: is a great way to
tap into your network. Great way
to do that. Ask if you know a
CEO who has a great integrator,
doing an honoring way, but
integrators tend to know other
integrators. And so just be able
to go approach them go, hey,
I've noticed you've done amazing
things for your CEO. Are there
other people like you that I
should be connected with, just
start to network, some
integrators have finished their
job at other jobs, and they're
ready for the next thing, and
you might be that person, that
they are like, I've been looking
for you. So you never know where
they are network, that should be
a huge part of what you do
anyways, as a visionary is
networking. Because new
opportunities lie in the
network. So
Unknown: that is all.
Deacon Bradley: One last place,
we got to look. And we'll close
it here. You should look inside
your own business. By the way.
Sometimes there's integrators
hanging out there that you just
haven't given them a chance or
the authority, or really just
noticed that they're capable of
something beyond their own job
description, but I know a lot of
people do find integrators from
within. It's a great place to
test it out. Try it out. Just,
you know, start tossing some
more stuff, and integrators love
to solve problems and create
clarity out of chaos. So you'll
know if you have one pretty
quick. That's so great. That is
so great. All right. Thanks,
Deacon. See you next week.
Thanks for joining us today on
the sharp business growth
podcast. This is one of my
favorite things to do and why
I've been so excited to bring
this podcast to you is because I
get to spend so much time around
CEOs and leaders of fast growth
businesses, Justice spend so
much time around them and, and
because of that, we have so many
conversations just like this and
this value, where when we're
able to take it back to the
business leaders that we worked
with. It just really opens their
eyes, and allows them to see
things from so many different
perspectives. And that's what
I'm so excited about. So we're
going to be sharing more
conversations like this. And
make sure you subscribe to the
show, your favorite podcast app,
so you never miss an episode.
Visit us at sharp business
growth.com For more resources,
make sure you're on the mailing
list and we're sending out some
kind of behind the scenes
stories about this as well. And
we'll see you next week.
![Looking For A Great "No. 2" - Start here.](https://img.transistor.fm/ask9T7jYI0pv-A4gg2O112N1Ijoqk4Yt2kfCTgPUS-E/rs:fill:800:800:1/q:60/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWct/dXBsb2FkLXByb2R1/Y3Rpb24udHJhbnNp/c3Rvci5mbS9lcGlz/b2RlLzE2OTM3ODkv/MTcwNTUzMDcxNS1h/cnR3b3JrLmpwZw.webp)